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Mēs neesam čukčas, Urbanoviča kungs!
 
Aleksejs
Posted: 28 August 2010 11:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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I know what manure is and you two (or one) sure seam to know how to spread it.  In your case I think your parents should have considered abortion when they found out you were conceived in the U.S.A.

We seem to have cut right down the seam, courlander. It is never too late to remedy that problem, Juri! Will you drag me into a gas chamber, Herr Courlander, or will we take a short walk to the Rumbula forest?

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Peteris Cedrins
Posted: 29 August 2010 02:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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One might note, whilst preparing to abort, that Leonidas Donskis is not “living as a ‘tribal’ in Lithuania”—he was elected to the European Parliament 2009-2014 from the Lietuvos Respublikos Liberalų sąjūdis, a center-right party. He was a Visiting Professor at Dickinson College, ranked 45th among American liberal arts colleges by USN≀, is Docent of Social and Moral Philosophy at the University of Helsinki and Extraordinary Visiting Professor of Cultural Theory at Tallinn University. He has taught and researched at some of the most respected educational institutions on the planet and his books have been published by august publishing houses like Rodopi and Routledge.

As to his constantly dropping names—what does that even mean, Ambersun? And what does it mean from someone who incessantly drops the same little handful of names and titles with a dull thud? The names in Donskis’s article are those of extremely well known figures, essential to any understanding of culture; wouldn’t you expect an article on culture to include the names of significant persons? Two—Rothko and Eisenstein—were born in what is now Latvia. The former is only lately becoming more known here, but quickly so (the Rothko Centre will open here in the city of his birth, the Arsenal in the Fortress being renovated [if anybody feels like visiting, I will give a lecture on Hell’s Kitchen at the Rothko symposium on 24 September: “Elles ķēķis: māksla dzejas pasaulē, dzeja mākslas pasaulē—Jaunajā pasaulē” ...but the real plum will be David Anfam’s “Abstract Expressionism—The View from the 21st Century] ...and even the bar in the tallest building in town is now named after Rothko). The latter figure, whose father was the architect of some of the most beautiful buildings in Riga, continues to fascinate; the Riga Film Museum is currently celebrating its twentieth anniversary with an exhibition devoted to Eisenstein. They (and many others, for instance Gustavs Klucis) had a profound international impact.

I think it apropos that Donskis invokes Orwell’s 1984 in the final paragraph of his piece. Your attitude makes me think of the erasure described in that novel, and of Stranga’s description of repeated “year zeroes.” You’re obsessed with “Soviet-deformity” but are actually deformed by your obsession. The fact is that the period lasted for half a century—people were born in it, lived in it, and were immersed in it, whether dissidents or willing or unwilling, or even fervent, participants in it. You may not want to read about Eisenstein sipping champagne, overjoyed by the “liberation” of Latvia in 1940, and might not ever watch his films again (if you ever even have) once you read those letters and notes of his, but many a great creative mind has been caught up in repugnant ideological projects (and, like Klucis and Laicens, not a few died of it). Their art still inspires, however, sometimes even inexhaustibly; the marvelous painter Francis Bacon, for example, was continually inspired by the Potemkin Stairs scene in Eisenstein’s 1925 film. Will you discard Čaks because of his collaboration with, and praise of, the Soviets? Where would modern Latvian literature be without him—not only in Latvia but in Hell’s Kitchen?

/P

[ Edited: 29 August 2010 06:13 PM by Peteris Cedrins]
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ambersun
Posted: 29 August 2010 06:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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To Peteris and Aleksejs,
Hopefully, Egils Levits can help you with your unrelenting disinformation about “Latvian nationalism.”  You’re the real extremists in your understanding of the Latvian nation and desperately need help to conquer such obvious Latvian inferiority complexes. 
 
“...ekstrēms nacionālisms nav latviešu vairākuma raksturlielums… .Gluži pretēji - vēsture pazīst “kaunīgo” latviešu sindromu, kas zemapziņā joprojām mīt daudzos no mums.

From juristavards.lv - August 3
http://www.juristavards.lv/index.php?menu=default&laidiens_id=8968&red_s=1
Dina Gailīte

Par nacionālu valsti un valstsnāciju

Kaislības, kas pagājušajā nedēļā uzbangoja Bīriņu valststiesību seminārā, nav tipiska juristu forumu parādība. Protams, sērkociņu lomu šajās sarunās nospēlēja daži klātesošie politologi, sociologi, filozofi u. tml. “provokatori”, taču arī juristi izrādījās pārsteidzoši gatavi (intelektuālam) kautiņam. Kas tad bija “karsto sarunu” cēlonis?

Tas bija Egila Levita piedāvātais koncepts par Latviju kā nacionālu valsti un latviešiem kā valstsnāciju - Latvijas izveidotāju un valsts pamatu jeb būtības kodolu ar tiesībām uz savas valsts identitātes uzturēšanu un turpināšanu. (Par nacionālām, no valststiesiskā viedokļa, uzskatāmas visas šā brīža Eiropas valstis.)

Jēdziens “Latvijas tauta” šī valststiesiskā koncepta ietvaros nozīmē valstsnācijas un pilsoņu kopuma summu. Abi šie jēdzieni gandrīz, bet ne pilnībā pārklājas, jo valstsnācija ir visi latvieši, ieskaitot tos, kas nav pilsoņi, savukārt pilsoņu kopumu veido ne tikai Latvijas Republikas pilsoņi - latvieši, bet arī pilsonību ieguvušie mazākumtautību pārstāvji. Imigranti nacionālās valsts ietvaros neveido nedz valstsnāciju, nedz mazākumtautību, un tiem ir pienākums piemēroties valstsnācijai, apgūstot tās valodu un kultūru, savukārt valsts politikai jābūt vērstai uz sabiedrības integrāciju un pat asimilāciju. Tādējādi netiek pieļauta paralēlu sabiedrību veidošanās, kuru locekļiem būtu sveša valsts identitāte (kā tas Latvijā diemžēl jau ir noticis). Tātad nacionālas valsts mērķis ir, lai visi tai piederīgie sevi identificētu ar šo valsti un tās valstsnāciju, kas gan neizslēdz mazākumtautību tiesības paralēli saglabāt savu nacionālo identitāti.

Nav viegli saprast, kas šajā - faktiski Eiropas valstu realitāti konstatējošajā - valststiesību teorijā ir tik provokatīvs? Semināra gaitā tika mēģināts pretstatīt nacionālas un demokrātiskas valsts jēdzienus. Kaut arī tie saturiski atšķiras, taču viens otru neizslēdz, jo vairums Eiropas valstu ir gan nacionālas, gan demokrātiskas.

Iespējams, pienācis laiks dekonstruēt valsti (un līdz ar to arī nacionālu valsti) un ļauties, piemēram, anarhijas valdzinājumam? Šādi vingrinājumi jau piedzīvoti 20. gadsimta sākumā brūkošās Krievijas impērijas ietvaros, un, protams, tos nevar izslēgt arī nākotnē.

Varbūt piesardzīgā latviešu jurista apziņu pārāk kairina vārda “nacionāls” biežais lietojums šajā teorijā (nacionāla valsts, valstnācija)? Liekas tomēr, ka nav lietderīgi baidīties no ēnas, kas nav mūsējā - ekstrēms nacionālisms nav latviešu vairākuma raksturlielums (kaut nevar aizmirst Ulmaņa režīmu, kas tomēr darbojās apturētas Satversmes laikā). Gluži pretēji - vēsture pazīst “kaunīgo” latviešu sindromu, kas zemapziņā joprojām mīt daudzos no mums.

Turklāt jāuzsver, ka šis ir konkrēti valststiesību, nevis kādas citas sociālo zinātņu nozares koncepts vai politiskās partijas programma, tādēļ tā dekonstrukcija, apzināti piepildot un jaucot jēdzienus ar citu nozaru attiecīgo jēdzienu saturu, nešķiet racionāls laika pavadīšanas veids.[my bold]

Something Peteris and Aleksejs will never write, from the comments on the above:
 
Juriste > 04.08.2010 16:16  
Egils Levits tikai skaidri un asi noformuleja to, kas ir acimredzamais Latvijas valsts pamats - un proti, latviesu nacija. Tadel ir satraucosi, ka par tadiem jedzieniem ka \“nacionala valsts\”, \“valstsnacija\” un citiem 20 gadus pec padomju okupacijas rezima beigam vel ir jadiskute. Tas rada, ka ar musu pasizpratni kaut kas nav kartiba. Citur Eiropa par sadu diskusiju brinitos.

Tadel paldies Birinu rikotajiem un Egilam Levitam, kas, kaut velu, bet tomer so diskusiju uzsaka. Varbut daudziem neapzinigi vel padomju rezima seku ena domajosiem juristiem si patiesiba bija jaunums, bet loti ceru, ka pec trim gadiem par to vairs nebus jaruna. Tas butu solis cela uz latviesu pasizpratnes normalizesanu. Mums vairs nav jakaunas but latviesiem un eiropiesiem.

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Into
Posted: 29 August 2010 08:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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From what I read, the only part of this I see anyone on this forum having issues with is the following

Liekas tomēr, ka nav lietderīgi baidīties no ēnas, kas nav mūsējā - ekstrēms nacionālisms nav latviešu vairākuma raksturlielums (kaut nevar aizmirst Ulmaņa režīmu, kas tomēr darbojās apturētas Satversmes laikā).

The Vadonistas actually might not see the specter of “extreme nationalism” as a bad thing if it is only a Latvian thing. This is patently naive and narrow minded. When the boot of extreme nationalism is on the other foot, the Russian nationalist foot for example, do they see it as a good thing?

Levits admirably takes an emotional and political issue and tries to establish a legal framework for a solution. The issue on this forum is not whether minority groups should be integrated into the cultural room of Latvia and support the states interests as their own. The issue here is how this is brought about, particularly, as Levits notes most of the russian ethnic minority has already developed their own cultural room separate from the Latvian cultural room which makes for obvious difficulties such as political manipulation of both sides.

One thing I think is clear is that extreme nationalism is not a solution, regardless the ethnic group behind it.

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Ints

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ambersun
Posted: 29 August 2010 11:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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I posted a different article from the same seminar on another thread ( also in August 3 juristavards.lv).
http://www.juristavards.lv/index.php?menu=default&laidiens_id=8968&red_s=1

/... ./ E. Levits analizēja latviešu nācijas, Latvijas tautas un Latvijas valsts savstarpējās attiecības. Eiropā visas valstis vēsturiski veidojušās kā nacionālas valstis un parasti to pamatā ir viena valsts­nācija. Valstsnācija ir konkrētās valsts būtības kodols. Ņemot vērā attieksmi pret valsti un citām nacionālām kopienām, nacionālās kopienas var iedalīt nacionālās grupās, tautās un nācijās.

Nacionāla grupa ir nacionāla kopiena, kurai ir sava nacionālā pašapziņa, t. i., tā apzinās sevi kā nacionāli kulturālu vienību, taču tā neuzskata sevi par patstāvīgu nacionālo kopienu, bet gan par citas, lielākas nacionāli kulturālas kopienas sastāvdaļu. Savukārt tauta ir nacionāla kopiena, kas sevi uzskata par patstāvīgu nacionāli kulturālu kopienu. Tauta, kurai ir sava valsts vai kura cīnās par šādas valsts izveidošanu, ir nācija.

Nacionālā valstī starp valsti un nāciju pastāv nacionāli kulturāla identitāte. Līdz ar to valstsnācijai ir tiesības uz savas un valsts identitātes uzturēšanu un turpināšanu. Attiecīgās nācijas valoda un kultūra ir valsts un visas sabiedrības kopēja valoda un kultūra.

Līdztekus valstsnācijai nacionālā valstī pastāv mazākumtautības, proti, vēsturiskās nacionālās kopienas, kas nepieder pie valstsnācijas. Šajā kontekstā E. Levits īpaši akcentēja, ka imigranti neveido nedz valstsnāciju, nedz mazākumtautības. Imigrantiem nacionālā valstī ir pienākums piemēroties valsts­nācijai un apgūt dubultidentitāt [my bold]i.
[google translate: “Besides valstsnācijai country has a national minority, namely the historic national community, which does not belong to valstsnācijas. In this context, E. Leavitt specifically stressed that immigrants do not either valstsnāciju or minorities. National immigrant in the country is obliged to adapt and learn valstsnācijai dubultidentitāti {my bold}].]


Latvija ir latviešu nācijas valsts. Valsts dibināšanas sagatavošanas dokumenti un pirmie konstitucionālie dokumenti skaidri norāda, ka latvieši Latvijā ir valstsnācija. Tomēr jau no sākta gala Latvijas valsts paplašināja Latvijas valsts politiski juridisko bāzi, paredzot tajā iesaistīt arī nacionālās mazākumtautības. Konstitucionāli Latvijas valsts bāze ir ne tikai latviešu nācija, bet arī Latvijas tauta, kurā ietilpst gan latviešu nācija, gan arī Latvijā dzīvojošās nacionālās mazākumtautības un citi indivīdi, kuri piesaistīti Latvijai ar pilsonības saikni.

“Besides valstsnācijai country has a national minority, namely the historic national community, which does not belong to valstsnācijas. In this context, E. Leavitt specifically stressed that immigrants do not either valstsnāciju or minorities. National immigrant in the country is obliged to adapt and learn valstsnācijai dubultidentitāti. /... ./

Also, some seem to be hostile to “nationalism” only when it’s Baltic - and then it’s usually called “extreme nationalism.” Unfortunately, some Latvians have internalized the prejudice and repeat the ignorance about normal Latvian nationalism.

[ Edited: 29 August 2010 11:12 AM by ambersun]
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Irena
Posted: 29 August 2010 03:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Courlander, re: your post, #14, I, as well as most anyone who reads this forum on a regular basis, am very much aware that there is no love lost between you and Peteris, Aleksejs, some other posters.  I know ousting your opponent takes high priority on LOL—it’s a big part of the macho game that’s played here.  And too often when logic and reason fail, human nature being what it is, there’s a tendency—an irresistible, insatiable urge to attempt to quash that person(s), squish him/them by hurling the worst possible insults imaginable.  Let me be the first to tell you that in that, you have succeeded.

In all the years I’ve been here on LOL, through all the name calling, expletives (and there has been some pretty bad stuff), I have never come across anything so malefic as what you wrote about parents who should have aborted, pertaining specifically to Peteris, Aleksis.  And, BTW, this is not about my trying to stick up for my LOL buddies, to defend them.  I’m very confident that they’re capable of fighting their own battles and are hardly crouching in a corner somewhere sobbing.  What it is about, is that something like this should never be said to ANYONE, ANYWHERE!  Not only is it insuling to the person(s) being targeted, but to their mothers, fathers.  Can we please refrain from at least denigrating people’s parents, families, dragging them through the gutter out of respect, human decency?

Irena

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Peteris Cedrins
Posted: 29 August 2010 05:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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Smooth change of subject, Ambersun! How unusual for you, khe.

Ints hits the nail on the head, I think, recalling Lelis’s little essay:

Izkaŗojuši brīvību, mēs bijām kļuvuši tādi paši šovinisti kā visi kaimiņi - Ulmanis bija radījis stāvokli, ka tautisku lielīšanos un šovinismu izvirzīja par vienu no galvenajiem latviešu pienākumiem.

As to Aleks and/or me being the real extremists in [our] understanding of the Latvian nation—spare me. We have both repeatedly addressed different facets of the issues Levits is talking about from different perspectives—and Aleks and I have very different perspectives and views on these matters.

I will again suggest Schöpflin György’s article, “Central Europe: Defining a Thought-Style.” “All the major European models of identity politics relied heavily on the hegemony of the most numerous ethnic component in the state and imposed its own model of modernity on the rest. Taking this model over proved disastrous in Central Europe for a number of reasons.” Consider the reasons, and his reflections on “incompleteness” and its consequences.

You conclude: Also, some seem to be hostile to “nationalism” only when it’s Baltic - and then it’s usually called “extreme nationalism.” Unfortunately, some Latvians have internalized the prejudice and repeat the ignorance about normal Latvian nationalism.

Balderdash. I’ve seen no evidence whatsoever that you can distinguish between a so-called “normal” nationalism and extremism (and “normality” is not really the issue—in the 1930s, extreme nationalism was normal).

Furthermore, I am by no means hostile to nationalism—I’m a nationalist. Not your kind of nationalist, no. And unlike you I have detailed my views—your relentless attempts to distort them are quite simply sleazy.

Then there’s the way you ceaselessly point a finger at others, which reminds me of the goons saying the Islamic center near Ground Zero shouldn’t be built until “we” can build a church in Mecca. Talk about inanity.

Loved the Google translation, though! You think that was helpful? But now that dubultidentitāte has become an English word—um, Ambi, isn’t dubultidentitāte something you quite often stridently oppose?

/P

P.S. Irēna wrote: ...I have never come across anything so malefic as what [Courlander] wrote about parents who should have aborted… Well, there was Mr LL wishing my family dead, which is worse because it calls for their murder rather than my non-existence…

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Irena
Posted: 29 August 2010 06:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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Peteris wrote: ” P.S. Irēna wrote: ...I have never come across anything so malefic as what [Courlander] wrote about parents who should have aborted… Well, there was Mr LL wishing my family dead, which is worse because it calls for their murder rather than my non-existence…”

I remember your mentioning something of the sort Peter’, but wasn’t quite clear as to what it was all about…so sorry for you, that people, a Latvian would sink so low.

Irena

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courlander
Posted: 29 August 2010 07:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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Irene
The question had nothing to do with murder but I should have asked the question „Did your parents have any children that lived?”
Alexis thinks that anyone who disagrees with him must answer his questions as if he is some authority. WRONG .
He is a child yet to learn the LOL facts that he is only one person and not an authority and no one has to answer to his stupid tirade.
Peter C
He is an individual who has problems with his father. Read all of his posts and you will see. He was born in the U.S.A. and when Latvia became free he went (can’t use the word return for he was born in the U.S.A) to Latvia to show them the way.
The problem with him is that most Latvians reject him because he is an outsider and they know it. I asked my great cousin in Latvia what he knew about Peter C and he replied “Send the idiot home for we Latvians know what is right”. This is a Kurzemnieks opinion.
My sister went to Latvia after the fall and she got slammed by the locals who said “we do not need your opinions but your money”
If someone wants to know what I know about this, I posted the subject.

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Aleksejs
Posted: 29 August 2010 08:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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Herr Courlander, Aleks - Alexis is perhaps someone you might have met at a strip club - just likes his questions answered. Period. A common decency demands it. Shame that some lack it and prefer to change the subject when confronted with clarifying uncomfortable questions. It’s not even a question of agreeing with me. Peteris and I have a very different opinion on many things when it comes to this country….

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Aleksejs
Posted: 29 August 2010 09:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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Imigrantiem nacionālā valstī ir pienākums piemēroties valsts nācijai un apgūt dubultidentitāti

You mean, there is more than one identity. You mean I can be a European-American-Latvian-Russian and still be part of your Latvia? I thought you rejected that notion, ambi.

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ambersun
Posted: 30 August 2010 05:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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Aleksejs,
“/... ./
E. Levits analizēja latviešu nācijas, Latvijas tautas un Latvijas valsts savstarpējās attiecības. Eiropā visas valstis vēsturiski veidojušās kā nacionālas valstis un parasti to pamatā ir viena valsts­nācija. Valstsnācija ir konkrētās valsts būtības kodols. Ņemot vērā attieksmi pret valsti un citām nacionālām kopienām, nacionālās kopienas var iedalīt nacionālās grupās, tautās un nācijās.
  Nacionāla grupa ir nacionāla kopiena, kurai ir sava nacionālā pašapziņa, t. i., tā apzinās sevi kā nacionāli kulturālu vienību, taču tā neuzskata sevi par patstāvīgu nacionālo kopienu, bet gan par citas, lielākas nacionāli kulturālas kopienas sastāvdaļu. Savukārt tauta ir nacionāla kopiena, kas sevi uzskata par patstāvīgu nacionāli kulturālu kopienu. Tauta, kurai ir sava valsts vai kura cīnās par šādas valsts izveidošanu, ir nācija.
  Nacionālā valstī starp valsti un nāciju pastāv nacionāli kulturāla identitāte. Līdz ar to valstsnācijai ir tiesības uz savas un valsts identitātes uzturēšanu un turpināšanu. Attiecīgās nācijas valoda un kultūra ir valsts un visas sabiedrības kopēja valoda un kultūra.
  Līdztekus valstsnācijai nacionālā valstī pastāv mazākumtautības, proti, vēsturiskās nacionālās kopienas, kas nepieder pie valstsnācijas. Šajā kontekstā E. Levits īpaši akcentēja, ka imigranti neveido nedz valstsnāciju, nedz mazākumtautības. Imigrantiem nacionālā valstī ir pienākums piemēroties valsts­nācijai un apgūt dubultidentitāti.
  Latvija ir latviešu nācijas valsts. Valsts dibināšanas sagatavošanas dokumenti un pirmie konstitucionālie dokumenti skaidri norāda, ka latvieši Latvijā ir valstsnācija.
/... ./”
Now the following you seem to misread should be clear to you:
Imigrantiem nacionālā valstī ir pienākums piemēroties valsts nācijai un apgūt dubultidentitāti

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ambersun
Posted: 30 August 2010 05:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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Aleksejs,
Here’s the Google Russian to Latvian translation.  Can’t find one for “European” to Latvian or Russian.  Help yourself and do your own Latvian to Russian.

Russian to Latvian translationShow romanization
Latvijas krievu translationShow latinizācijas
E. Levits analizēja iedzīvotājus Latvija, latviešu tautas un Latvijas sabiedriskās attiecības. Eiropā visas valstis vēsturiski iesakņojušās kā nacionāla valsts, un, kā likums, ir balstīta uz valstsnācija. Valstsnācija ir konkrētām valstīm kodols kodols. Ņemot vērā attieksmi pret valsti un citām etniskām kopienām, etniskām kopienām var iedalīt valstu grupu, tautu un nāciju.
  Valsts puse valstu kopienām, kurām ir savas valsts pašcieņu, t I. Viņš saprot sevi kā nacionālistu kultūras iestāde, taču tā neuzskata sevi neatkarīgu valsts kopienām, bet arī citi, daudz nacionālistu kultūras sastāvdaļa sabiedrībā. Kaut arī tauta ir valsts sabiedrība, kas uzskata, ka neatkarīga nacionālistu kultūras aprindām. Cilvēki, kuri savas valsts vai kuri cīnās, lai izveidotu šādu valsts, tauta.
  Valsts valstī starp valsts un nācijas kultūras identitātes nacionālistu. Tātad valstsnācijai ir tiesības savu nacionālo identitāti, uzturēšanu un turpināšanu. Attiecīgos valsts valodu un valsts kultūras un sabiedrības kopīgu valodu un kultūru.
  Turklāt valstsnācijai valsts nacionālo minoritāšu, proti, vēsturisko valsts sabiedrības, kas nepieder pie valstsnācijas. Šajā sakarā, E. Levits īpaši, ka imigranti nav arī valstsnāciju vai minoritātēm. Valstu imigranti šajā valstī, ir spiesti pielāgoties un iemācīties valstsnācijai dubultidentitāti.
  Latvija ir latviešu tautas valsts. Valsts dibināšanas dokumenti un pirmo konstitucionālo dokumentu sagatavošana ir skaidri noteikts, ka Latvijas latvieši valstsnācija.

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Aleksejs
Posted: 30 August 2010 05:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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It doesn’t matter how many times you’re going to cut and paste it, it changes nothing.

I especially like this part: Līdztekus valstsnācijai nacionālā valstī pastāv mazākumtautības, proti, vēsturiskās nacionālās kopienas, kas nepieder pie valstsnācijas. However, when you, ambersun, cannot say anything positive about carriers of the immigrant culture, who found their home in Latvia, you don’t help that integration. When you mock a notion of several identities, you don’t help that integration.

Every time when someone asks what ambersun (not, Levits, or Lucas, or Jukka) thinks about processes taking place in Latvia, ambersun runs away. Even that same Levits says, “...nemākulīgās, populistiskās un nekonsekventās valsts pārvaldes politikas dēļ Latvija tiešām nav pa šiem 20 neatkarības gadiem spējusi uzbūvēt modernai, demokrātiskai un tiesiskai valstij atbilstošu valsts pārvaldi.” Not to mention a policy toward integration largely because it has taken us 20 years to even start talking about what political idea unites different ethnicities into the political nation of Latvia.

I am tired of repeating myself, but I’ll ask the same question I asked when we met in Riga: What does it take to be a Latvian, ambersun? How many times do I have to ask you the same question only see you run for the fields? You just do anything in your power not to answer that simple question, but you feel you need to continue your rants about The Hard-Working Latvians, Without Whom Latvia Wouldn’t Exist(tm).

Does Levits mean that one has to like tautasdziesmas? Does Levits mean that it is duty of ethnic minority to attend song festivals? Does it mean that it’s the duty of ethnic minorities to shed any signs of their own cultural heritage and embrace the ethnic and cultural heritage of Latvians? What is that valsts nacija of which Levits speaks, ambersun? What values does that nation have? What values unite its citizens, ambi?

And you even dare to talk about minorities’ duties again after you accused me of walking the Kremlin line in everything I say, yet you’re unable to offer a shed of evidence. Instead, you want me to gather the evidence for you. I’ll get right on that, massa.

I wouldn’t want to be part of any club that have you, madame president, as a member.

[ Edited: 30 August 2010 07:14 AM by Aleksejs]
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ambersun
Posted: 30 August 2010 06:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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Peteris,
Love your shifting and moving definitions of “nationalism” depending on your whimsy and prejudice.  You are a “nationalist” of what?  Do you think you are more qualified than E. Levits to define Latvia and its nationalism and what should be the obligations of Latvia’s immigrants to Latvians and Latvia?  Why don’t you define your nationalism of “whatever” that I’m sure becomes progressive and normal  “n-a-t-i-o-n-a-l-i-s-m”  when in your sacred trust in Dvinsk, LatRuss, next door to the harmonious nationalism of your neighbors fulfilling their “pienakums” of embracing the double identity and a peace-loving neighbor nation like Russia with its “normal” nationalism. Why don’t you comment on Levits about immigrants “pienākums piemēroties valsts­nācijai un apgūt…” etc?  What about these active obligations and efforts - “pienakums” and “apgut?” That’s what Latvia is all about - immigrants with that sense of obligation to “piemeroties” to the founding Latviesi.  Why don’t you compare your ideas from your areas of expertise? Levits - http://www.rgsl.edu.lv/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=182&Itemid=122

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