Although, Courlander, your Web site, http://www.lacplesis.com is registered under a name of Juris Bets.
Juris Bets
1509 E.13th
Des Moines, Iowa 50316-2431
United States

Is that your real name?

PS I should probably let you know the source of my information.

it’s early in the morning here, but Courlander, I don’t quite see what your objective is here?  If its to get more people to look at your site, well then, I guess you’ve succeeded.  If it’s a genuine attempt for people to be more receptive to your ideas—angry people do not LISTEN, especially to the ideas of their perpetrators.  And if this is some sort of payback, a twisted kind of joke, you may not be the one who gets the last laugh.

Irena

Ārijas comment: “The younger generation in Latvia, Aleksej’s generation, should not be saddled with a collective guilt.  They are the ones building the overpass in Latvia while we in trimda refuse to give an inch.”

I wish that I was as kind, considerate and sympathetic as Ārija, but unfortunately I am not. There is no way that Latvians will apologize for the consequences of the vainglorious occupation. Besides, this is not, as Ārija confuses, just a trimda vs. the young brat occupants (I know Aleksejs does not like the word, but it is polysemous and appropriate while sitting in a stall or occupying a country) concern. It is a serious issue for all Latvians and today there are more journalists, politcians and the Latvian society at large – Latvians and Russians – coming to the fore to counter the exploitive interests of the Kremlin and its fifth column backers.

With 33-year young Aleksejs, 33-year old Nils Ušakovs and 32-year old Sergejs Ņevoļskis (covered on post # 22) busy backing Kremlin’s victory celebration program in occupied territory – the scene of Soviet/Russian and Nazi German crimes against Latvians - instead of having it confined to Moscow and the rest of Russia, I fail to see where “building the overpass,” even if figuratively, is taking place. They are the active banner carriers and cheerleaders for the occupying forces of the soviet generation. They’ve been well indoctrinated from childhood and haven’t, like ambersun says, “learned to reject their own despots and wars.”

Aleksej’s lament: “You keep repeating this over and over again, yet I’ve yet to find anyone among my colonist friends who wait until Russia returns. Yes, for pensioners, perhaps, this is a foreign land and they’re too old to move. But for the rest of those evil Russians? Care to offer any shred of evidence of your ridiculous notions?” Sure, but don’t get it wrong, the fifth column colonists are not waiting, they are actively pursuing Russia’s take over of Latvia. Consider that 1500 people object to November 18 celebration, Russians daily demonstrating strong allegiance to mother Russia, May 9 celebration hosted by Zhadnoka with monies from Kremlin, Putins’ “Russki mir” objective (more on this later), SC’s [Harmony Center Party’s] relationship with Putins political party “United Russia” operated by Siloviki. Than we have Ušakovs telling the Russian press that this Russian city, Rīga, is up for grabs, street names, monuments, property. It does not take much as the Russian power base has an established cast-in-concret reputation and precedence that they cannot be trusted. It’s hard for Russia to shake the “enemy at the gates” image.

Readers may have noticed the psychological innuendoes, imprinted messages that Aleksejs likes to convey with the selective use of his language “evil Russians,” freedom loving Russians gather at the victory monument, Russia will never occupy Latvia as it is just a big brother next door trying to help poor little Latvia. To Aleksejs “sorry” is just a word where one does not have to behave the way one preaches. All typical strawman approaches.

Cheers, Ivars

“With 33-year young Aleksejs, 33-year old Nils Ušakovs and 32-year old Sergejs Ņevoļskis (covered on post # 22) busy backing Kremlin’s victory celebration program in occupied territory”

Funny. And sad. I stand for the freedom of self-expression. I personally choose to remember the sacrifices of men and women who died in world wars on Nov. 11 with a trip to Brāļu kapi where I apparently do not know who is buried there, Graudina kungs. I go to the monument on May 9 for the anthropological reasons - I’m curious what drives people there. I don’t carry around flowers, though the songs they’re singing are quite catchy. To me, May 9 is about freedom of expression even to those who somehow feel intimidated by it. I also go to the March 16 festivities near the Freedom Monument for the very same reason. I’m curious what drives people to those events. So, please, no need to lump me personally. You only know as much about me as I’ve shared with you. Do not jump to conclusions, Mr. Graudins.

Mr. Graudins, how many Russian-speakers living in Latvia do you personally know? Or speak to? I do not know of any one of them who longs for Russia to return. And I ask them many times. If anyone is pursuing a return of Russia – economic return that is – it is the Latvian politicians. Ironic, isn’t it, that the People’s Party, for example, negotiated the border treaty with Russia, that under the People’s Party leadership an anti-Putin documentary was not allowed to be shown on Latvian national TV ahead of the Duma elections, that business wheeling and dealing of the likes of ethnic Latvians in power resembles very much wheeling and dealing of the back rooms of the Kremlin. Ironic, don’t you think? The SC could be a bunch of loons - and some of them are (I personally can’t stand people like Kabanovs) - but they have never had a public office until Usakovs was elected last October. And you’re giving Nils too much credit if you believe that it is possible to sell off an entire country in just a few short months he’s been in power.

I think your paranoia is setting in, Mr. Graudins.

Readers may have noticed the psychological innuendoes, imprinted messages that Aleksejs likes to convey with the selective use of his language “evil Russians,” freedom loving Russians gather at the victory monument, Russia will never occupy Latvia as it is just a big brother next door trying to help poor little Latvia.

“Freedom-loving Russians”? Hmm. Don’t recall ever saying that. Or even implying that. I did, however, say that I’m a peace-loving Russian, a citizen of Latvia, who believes in freedom of expression, yes. But those people who go there - they’re all kinds, much like Russians living here, come in all shapes and sizes. Coloring them “red” isn’t going to justice to the sample.

Nor I do think Russia has the capability and the desire to occupy the Baltics at this point. The Baltics are members of the EU and NATO and Russia wouldn’t go in conflict with them, regardless of whatever the fifth column people want.

Catching up with the newly prolific and peripatetic Aleksejs writing about his Russian grandmother.  Aleksejs, we do have some things in common: Latvians also have grandmothers.  Those grandmothers who were unable to flee the Soviet Russian occupation of Latvia were required to learn Russian as required by the Russians, especially if they wanted to be employed.  Yeah, seems a bit harsh for Latvians (especially their old grandmothers) now in comparison to requirements for today’s Russians and their grandmothers in today’s free Latvia.  What does your grandmother think of that?  Do people discuss this on May 9 as a part of the reflection on their Soviet past and Soviet triumph that allowed them to force Latvians to speak Russian in Latvia? 

Occupying Russians did not learn Latvian because they did not want or need to, as you wrote.  Among those were also Russian grandmothers (like yours), of course, since it was a family thing to not learn or speak Latvian in the homeland of the Latvian people.  That could be seen as disrespectful and rude when you’re new to a country.  But then, I guess it’s a different thing if you think Latvia is really Russia.  Maybe Russian grandmothers could have gotten along better with Latvians and Latvian grandmothers especially if they had even tried to learn Latvian despite not being forced, as were the Latvian grandmothers to learn Russian.  Any thoughts on that idea?  A “sincere” Russian attempt could go a long way as opposed to an adamant “nyet.”  Besides, did your grandmother ever care if Latvia would ever again be independent from Russia?  In anticipation of this happy day for Latvians, maybe she and the other Russians could have started learning one word a day.  By now, that would be a decent vocabulary.  Could you help her?  Of course, no one likes to be forced but maybe the Russians know better that one has to be forced to learn a language that one would prefer not to learn.  You’d think the Russians would invite this “helpful” forced requirement for themselves in today’s Latvia since they believed in it for others in their Soviet Union.

About my two grandmothers.  One was unable to flee from the Soviet Russian occupation.  One was able to flee to the United States.  They both were severely traumatized what with their lives being totally disrupted and all that loss of loved ones to one thing or another war-related.  The grandmother in Latvia I sadly never was able to meet since she died before the Russians allowed families to unite and visits from abroad to Soviet Latvia You are lucky to know your grandmother.  It’s a good thing you speak Russian until you can help her learn to speak Latvian.  My grandmother who fled to the US was never able to return to Latvia and the home and family members she was separated from.  We don’t even know what happened to some family members, on all sides, especially those who hid in the forests. Then again, they could have been killed in the war or deported to Siberia.  Neither grandmother spoke any “sunu” language but both were animal whisperers.  They spoke as many languages as their lives afforded opportunity to learn or required.

Nice. Thanks for sharing ambersun. Did I mention that my grandmother was born in 1933 in the Republic of Latvia? She was no occupier, or occupant, if that’s your favorite word.

How old was your grandmother when she was forced to the US? How much opportunity did she have to speak her native language? One thing is being forced to change a place of residence, it’s quite another when the world is changing without you having any control over it and while you remain in the same country.

Look, ambersun, I’m all for people learning, speaking, writing in Latvian. I encourage that and promote it to my friends. I try to do it as much as I can. But I understand difficulties involved in learning another language for some people who, perhaps, due to their age and/or mental abilities are unable to learn another language. My grandmother, for example, cannot write properly in her native Russian, not to mention Latvian.

FYI: Suņu language is your choice of words. I have never heard it from Russians. Especially educated ones.

A Latvian who makes bigoted remarks on a public forum is excused for being elderly, a Latvian?  Yet, Aleks’ Russian grandmother is taken to task on a public forum for not speaking Latvian?! 

Bozhe moi…

Irena

My appology to “lyosha’s Babushka…................let her take as long as she needs.
Another 77 years may do.

Battling it out here in the forum amongst ourselves is one thing; dragging in someone’s family members and making derogatory remarks and/or snide insinuations about them is quite another-it’s not acceptable.

Irena

she refused to tip me when i delivered a bucket of peljmeny back in ‘59.
it was 40 below, you mind.

Peter B is a moron. I’ll make a T-shirt with that next time you come here, if you do.

and ‘lyosha is a rocket scientist, just like his Babushka.

He may not be a rocket scientist, but he can sell any t-shirt he designs on E-bay.  Not everyone can say that.

Irena, 
There certainly is way too much bigotry and intolerance in our world.  I see it every day and do try to be brave enough to challenge it even when difficult or not popular, when based on those hair-trigger issues of ethnicity, national origin, color, race, religion, sexual orientation, gender, age. The layers of prejudice are hard to unravel and solutions stymie us all.  One person’s perceived right is another person’s perceived wrong.  Seems we’re either oblivious or too thin-skinned about manifestations of bigotry and discrimination, depending on how we set our own “prejudice” radar.  I’ve noticed that yours appears honed in on - “Russian” - and now -  “Russian grandmother.”  If you wrote your comment about “bigoted remarks on a public forum” because your radar was tripped, I certainly hope it wasn’t because you thought I, who is not known by friends and family as an “elderly” given to making “bigoted remarks,” was disparaging any grandmothers.

I certainly can understand anyone’s love for their grandmother since I loved my own grandmothers very much. Aleksejs felt compelled to offer information soliciting understanding for his Russian grandmother in Latvia, and I was prompted to do the same for mine to offer him some balance from the Latvian grandmothers’ side of life.  I don’t apologize for defending Latvian grandmothers, especially mine, against misperception or ignorant illusions that their lives were not harmed by the Soviet Russian occupation and that learning Russian with a new alphabet for native Latvian-speakers was a “piece of cake.”  Both my grandmothers did know Russian: one lived in Latgale and her home language was Latgalian (how many Russians around her learned Latgalian?) and the other (along with my father and family) was forced to flee to Russia around WWI for a number of years (as were many Latvians, both speaking Russian and fleeing).

It makes perfect sense that if any understanding of the plight of Latvians and their grandmothers is to be gained by Russians and their Russian (only)-speaking grandmothers now living in Latvia, for whatever reason they now live in Latvia (including Aleksejs’s grandmother who was in fact born in independence Latvia in 1933) then I want them to also know my two Latvian grandmothers’ stories—and for Aleksejs to be able to share them with his Russian grandmother.  If she does not know Latvian, how is she to know any Latvian story?  Also, Irena, if you have a more “winning” suggestion to Russians— that the ethnically-exclusive (bigoted?) May 9 celebration in Latvia owes it Latvian grandmothers to offer information about the tragedy of Latvian grandmothers’ lives because of Soviet Russian occupation of Latvia—maybe you can share it.  I’m all for building bridges and spanning divides.  As far as I can see, Latvians have walked across the bridge almost to the other side with nary-but-a-few Russians in sight.  They can’t be missed at May 9.  Perhaps your bigotry radar will emerge on next May 9 to help Russians with their manifestations of anti-Latvian bigotry. 

If Russian grandmothers still can’t speak or read Latvian, then it really no longer is about learning Latvian after so many years, and it falls to their children and heirs in Latvia to tell them some Latvian grandmothers’ stories.  Do you think that’s happening in Latvia?  How do you think understanding between Russophone and Lettophone grandmothers and their children and heirs can happen if they are not speaking a common language and not seeking a common understanding?  My grandmothers always either said or reflected the attitude that “vini taks ari ir cilveki.” The Latvians in my world have always said, “krievi taks ari ir cilveki,” even while Latvia was occupied and being russified. Not only “krievi” but “others” are also in my family and among my close friends, for crying out loud!  I expect no one to be a saint in understanding but responsibility to compromise needs to be evenly required or we’ll get no place.  Unfortunately, it’s the Latvians who seem to do the most understanding and compromising, even if against other Latvians.  I look for sincere behavior, Irena, not years of “sincere” promises. 

What were the Russians saying about Latvians while they were occupying them and russifiying them? “Latviesi ari taks ir cilveki?”  What do the Russians say about the lack of retribution against “Russians” by Latvians after Latvia regained its independence?  Why was so much of the world surprised by its absence?   

I loved my grandmothers and wished that I had been able to help them more, one in the US with her sadness in never again being able to return to Latvia to see her home and the rest of her family, the other in Latgale with her sadness in never again being able to see my mother - and with her pain in dying a horrible death with cancer in Soviet-impoverished Latgale.  Irena, if you have a problem with what I wrote, then you did not hear anything about Latvian sadness and the sadness of Latvian grandmothers. Both of my grandmothers were incredibly strong, intelligent, courageous, fair, loving, and admirable women.  I speak out against anti-Latvian ignorance and injustice on their behalf.

I believe I told this story a number of years ago on this forum, but - people come, people go, and I think it’s relevant to the conversation now.

I was visiting in Latvia one year not long after coming across LOL.  I’m guessing 2002 or so.  Back then there was much of the same on LOL - many people focusing on “oooh, bad Russians” while caring less of current events.  So, I made it a point to see what I could see, learn what I could, ask questions if possible, re. “them rooskies”.

One very vivid memory:  my cousin (Latvian by blood, primary language and birthplace, for those keeping score) was driving me back to Riga from his family’s apartment in Olaine, when we drove past an older woman (60s, maybe 70s) standing by the railline, hitchhiking.  He pulled over, she climbed in.  She said things in Russian, he replied the same way, translating for me that she had just missed the last train back.  She then spoke to me - my cousin intercepted.  I understood enough Russian to keep up with his explanation that I was a visitor from America, and did not speak Russian, but I spoke Latvian.  She sounded apologetic - but managed in Latvian - she was sorry, she speaks very little Latvian.  But she can say:  Labvakar!  Novelu labu laimi!  Novelu daudz naudu!  I laughed, and for the rest of the trip, she spoke to my cousin in Russian, he translated a few things for me, translated what I said back to her, and at times just the two of them were chatting, with no translation.

After we dropped her off, he told me what she had said - that she had lived there since (I forget, but I seem to remember the 60s) but had just never learned Latvian.  I said - well, don’t you find that disturbing, that she’s lived here for so long, but has learned only that much Latvian?  He shrugged, said - well, of course she should have learned, but he knows Russian and why should he be unpleasant to an elderly woman?

Lessons I learned:

Russian woman did not sneer at someone who did not know Russian.  On the contrary, she expressed some regret, and tried very much to say the few things she knew to make a visitor welcome.

Latvian man, at that point somewhere around 40 years of age, thought it more important to be polite to an elderly woman than to be right.

I came away with a decent opinion of her, and much respect for him.  And those like him.

I’ll add, all of his children speak fluent Latvian.  Question to the diaspora uber-Letts whose prime claim to Latvian usefulness is speaking negatively of Russians whenever possible - can you say the same?