You saved Latvia once… why in the world are you not there now, lending your wisdom, experience, leadership?  Get off the barstool(s)!

Could Bobciks great concern with the vandalism be because the stores vandalized were “Rigas Balzams” veikali?
If anyone wants to see what unrest in the US of A looks like, go see the film “Battle in Seattle” (not 100% sure of the title) about the WTO riot that took place in ever peaceful Seattle a decade ago.  Those who are older, may recall the police riot that took place in Chicago’s Grant Park during the Democratic Convention in 1968.  Small groups of people (during the WTO, the anarchists and in Chicago, the police) have a tendency of hijacking manifestations and using it for their goals.
Janis

Not completely off topic - Roberts, daudz laimes vardā dienā.

Oh the Times!

To borrow a phrase from the jubilars.

Money quote:

In a public statement on Wednesday, Mr. Zatlers, the president, denounced the violence, but said it was more important to ask “why people gathered in Dome Square.”

Andrejs

So much fan mail, I know not where to begin.

Well since Anita was so kind to censor my posts and then respond, let’s start with her.

anita - 13 January 2009 07:14 PM

Robert, my goodness, I had no idea you were such a hero back in the day!  What are you doing in the industrial pits of the East Coast?  You saved Latvia once… why in the world are you not there now, lending your wisdom, experience, leadership?  Get off the barstool(s)!  They NEED you!  YOU know how to do this, YOU, apparently, were at the helm of Latvian freedom in the 1990s!  Robciks for President!

Thanks for the nomination, Aņuška!  You apparently have a very limited memory (to go along with your narrow world-view).  You learned of my experiences with VAK, H86 and LTF years ago.  I was just in Latvia a couple of months ago, and will be returning to my Fatherland in a few months.  I will decline the nomination, as my family has already given the Republic one President.

Can someone help Vidiot Winestain (you’re a class act, Bobby -a)

So I guess you are jumping into the fray with the diminutives and the name-calling as well, Aņuška.  That’s cool.  Note I didn’t say jacksh!t to Vidiot until he started in with me.  As for the translation, no matter how you slice it, “vairāki tūkstoši” is still significantly more than 200.  BTW the accepted translation for “Doma laukums” is not “Dome.”  There is nothing even vaguely dome-like about the church square in Rīga.  Still, it is strange that you describe a mob with nooses and pitchforks as being part of a “peaceful” protest.

I do, however, owe Dyslexic Tom an apology.  It was a Tante and not a Granny at the protests.  Sorry, man.

I think it is very cute, Tom, that you care enough about my country to go out and protest against its government.  If there truly is such a strong opposition to the Saeima, then surely the people will vote the scoundrels out of office come the new elections.  This is how a democracy is supposed to work.  Street battles and violence are not the answer.  I am somewhat perturbed at your characterizations:

And poor Roberts had one small oversight in his list of scummy gorups (blacks, muslims etc). He forgot to include the faggots as provocateurs.

I’m not exactly sure of what “gorups” are (maybe this is a dyslexic thing) but I have never characterized blacks as being “scummy.”  Perhaps Tom thinks they are, but I don’t.  You should go back and actually read what I wrote, instead of jumping to conclusions as Aņuška usually does.  The “scummy gorups” I referred to were the rioting migrants in European cities.  Better hurry, though.  It might not be up there for too much longer.  Anita/ForumAdmin is busy censoring posts again.

My record on the “Faggots” (as Tom calls them) has been pretty clear and consistent.  I support their right to have their parades, as I support the rights of the War Veterans of both sides to have their parades.  Any group wishing to have a peaceful demonstration in Rīga should be allowed to do so, as long as they assume the responsibility to ensure safety and the public order.  Those who march in support of the Latvian Legion realize that many folks in Rīga might not be thrilled with their pasākums, so they do an effective job of handling their own security.  Mozaīka/ILGA (the association for the Homos/Lesbos/Trannies of Latvia) should by now realize that they provoke strong reactions from the community at large, and should be prepared accordingly.

Tom continues:

But it is a sad day. There is no excuse for what happened, and I am sure that Roberts will misconstrue what I write, but how can a govt that stirs such hatred and anger stay?

How do you suppose I could misconstrue that?  I agree that January 13th was indeed a sad day.  I also agree that there is no excuse for what happened.  Ain’t it great that you and I can agree on so much, Tom?  But consider this—Latvia’s Homosexuals “stir such hatred and anger,”  yet they stay.  The government, however, can be replaced by the will of the people.

Elizabete writes:

Roberts has a long history of trying to be the ‘enfant terrible’ of LOL.

Lizzie, dear, I love it when you speak French!

Aleksejs asks:

One question, Roberts, in Latvia, whose job is it to provide security during protests that may turn violent

I’d say it depends on the pašvaldība and whatever the terms are laid out in the permit that the civic group organizing the protest is petitioning for.  Oh, and thanks for the namesday greetings.  That was very kind of you.

Incīt—blaming Russian “urlas” for the violence is just plain wrong, man.  Interesting that your source states that only 100 people were rioting.  Wow, and European media report that 125 demonstrators were arrested.  That must mean that there were at least 25 non-violent protesters sitting in the čoka this morning.  Oh, the humanity.  Unless of course they are Russians, in which case I suppose you would rather they stay there until they rot.

Andrej, you disappoint me, brother.  I would defend to death your right to vote (if you were actually a citizen), yet you so callously would deny me my voting rights?  That’s sad.  A money quote from Pastor Martin Niemöller for you to dwell on:

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Jude.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.

Happy Roberts’ day to all!

Peace out,
/R

According to Tom:

tom - 13 January 2009 09:23 PM

And the police say:

Nekārtības Vecrīgā bijušas stihiskas un spontānas

Kārlis Streips, one of Latvija’s most respected journalists, would disagree with that assessment: “No one can rip a cobblestone out of the street without having the necessary equipment with them. This was a planned and organized event, and I hope that the book is thrown at every single person who was guilty of the offense.”

Gotta love his law-and-order attitude.

/R

Austris Pinkjis pulled stones from street with his bare hands. No specialized equipment.

A footlong wiener would be specialized equipment for Charlie Stripe…......LOL

Peteris Cedriņs et al.,

“That is too many for Dom Square, and I wish they’d move it to the riverside (more appropriate for the 13th January echoes anyhow”.

You were right about that!  Put another way:  Do not have sanctioned assemblies of large crowds close to dusk, near liquor stores, and crowded together buildings with a lott of glass windows.

Visu labu,

Bobiks,
I’ll throw Streips right back at ‘ya.

Vakar vakara notikumi man sirdī joprojām veido mieles. Pie Saeimas atradās ļaudis maskās un ļaudis, kuri brēca “Rossija, Rossija!” Tie nu nebija cilvēki, kuri protestēja vecmāmiņas zemo pensiju. Vainīgie ir jānoskaidro, cik noprotams, likuma aizsardzības instancēm ir pietiekami daudz video materiālu un citas informācijas, katrā gadījumā vakar vakarā notikušo redzēja ļoti daudz aculiecinieku. Lai arī kādas nebūtu sabiedrības dusmas par mūsu pagalam izkurtējušo valdību, nav aizbildinājuma logu laušanai, šņabja bodes izlaupīšanai (tas, starp citu, par vakar vakara “cēloņiem” pasaka ļoti daudz), un policijas apmētāšanai ar akmeņiem un citiem priekšmetiem.

Point taken, I cannot single out the defenseless “urlas” but more than one person seems to associate russian hooligans and alcohol during this event.
Maybe between the howls of “Rossija, Rossija” they had just enough time to take a swig from the bottle plucked out of the looted Balzams store?

The other posting with the 100 number is a cut’n'paste of the Associated Press article. I claim no responsibility for the numbers, one way or the other, just wanted to point out that your 10,000 and the lowly 100 pop up in the same article, however as two distinct groups with decidedly different agendas.

Roberts is dissapointed:

Andrej, you disappoint me, brother.  I would defend to death your right to vote (if you were actually a citizen), yet you so callously would deny me my voting rights?  That’s sad.  A money quote from Pastor Martin Niemöller for you to dwell on:

Right back attcha brother.

I don’t speak German, but I am assuming by the gist that’s the famous first they came for x and I did nothing, then they came for y, by the time they came from me there was no one left to do anything? I paraphrase and don’t see the connection? Or are you projecting again and you think those rioters in Vecriga were coming for you? I know you have a rather healthy ego and that’s a very good thing, but for the sake of your mental health I think you really need to start setting some boundries. I say this to you as a frienemy of long standing.

I would callously deny the voting rights to almost anyone who is so callous about democracy and civic activism. Obviously they don’t get the basic premise so why burden them with that responsability? You know me. I am always trying to help a brother out. They’ll probably be more comfortable with a totalitarian law and order regime where everyone politely simply does what they’re told.

My original use of the pronoun “you” was mean in the universal sense, but if you really think it applies to you specifically then by all means. If the only thing you (Roberts) got from the protest is the violence aspect of it then there are so many flaws with that view that I (Andrejs) wouldn’t know where to start to explain the problem with said view to you (Roberts). On a scale of 1 to 10 of importance (10 being the most important) I would say the violence would score a 1.7.

Andrejs

“Note I didn’t say jacksh!t to Vidiot until he started in with me.”

The newest “National Treasure” Bobciks was clearly picking roadside daisies for his mom when that mean mean Vidas character mercilessly pummeled yet another poorly constructed post The Bobciks had written.

Your pleading victim here is truly absurd. Beyond absurd - kjerts !

“As for the translation, no matter how you slice it, “vairāki tūkstoši” is still significantly more than 200. “

Again, Tom and Aleks and others posting here were actually in Riga and at the demonstrations. Many of the news reports linked in this thread were authored by reporters who were actually at the demonstration. No reason for eye witnesses to engage you in semantics. They were actually there !

At the time these demonstrations were forming and these witnesses and reporters were noting the event - you were likely contemplating whats for lunch in New Jersey. Sorry but I’ll take their accounts as factual before I consider what you may have decided to dream up for yourself while digesting a ham sandwich in subterranean Jersey.

Vidas

Amidst deciding who among mere mortals is worthy of participating in democracy and who is not, Andrejs pontificates:

Andrejs - 14 January 2009 04:07 PM

If the only thing you (Roberts) got from the protest is the violence aspect of it then there are so many flaws with that view that I (Andrejs) wouldn’t know where to start to explain the problem with said view to you (Roberts). On a scale of 1 to 10 of importance (10 being the most important) I would say the violence would score a 1.7.

Every major media outlet everywhere in the known Universe running any news item mentioning Latvia today uses the words “violence,” “riot,” or “clash” in the lede.  The Rest of the World gets the violence aspect of it.  On the scale of 1 to 10, the Rest of the World pretty much gives it a 10—it has a good beat and you (Universal) can dance to it.  Since you (Andrejs) have such a hard time with comprehending this, I (Roberts) can only imagine that your (Andrejs) head might explode if you (Andrejs) tried to read the Trib today.

It is apparent you (Andrejs) and I (Roberts) are on a different wavelength.  Do me a favor, old chum.  Next time you (Andrejs) direct your (Andrejs) most profound thoughts to the you (Universal), can you (Andrejs) not give me (Roberts) a shout-out immediately prior to sharing these musings most profound.  At least break it up into a different paragraph.  That way these exhortations of yours (Andrejs) can flow freely out to the vast universal audience for whom they were in fact intended.

Pursuant to the first part of the post in question, I (Roberts) am honored but also greatly disturbed that you (Andrejs) would compare me to the fair Ann, the sexy, sassy, smart and lovely lawyer who makes me look like George Stephanopoulos in comparison.  There are limits to this bro-mance, my friend.

/R

Incīt,

Assuming then that the crowd of demonstrators numbered 10,000, and ten percent of them (1000) were disgruntled policemen at the beck and call of protest co-organizer Agris Sūna.  If we are to believe that only a negligible amount of protesters, lets say 200 for the sake of argument, actually participated in the rioting, then they should have been outnumbered 5-1 by Sūna’s men.  Those must have been some extremely fierce urlas.  Not only can every single one of them evade and outwit five undercover cops, they still have the stamina and determination to take on hundreds more police and military men!

/R

Robert, you said

You learned of my experiences with VAK, H86 and LTF years ago.  I was just in Latvia a couple of months ago, and will be returning to my Fatherland in a few months.

Yes, I know all about those experiences, as well as your experiences in MLG and elsewhere.  It’s why your online puffery amuses and saddens me all at once.  And by all means return to Latvia in a few months.  The good you do there is no doubt immeasurable.  The value of your week-long presence in the midst of these events is almost certainly indescribable.

Regarding the worldwide coverage of the event - yes, if one reads the first few sentences of the reports and stops reading, it does seem that rioters ran rampant in Riga.  The fact remains, however, that in every single one of those reports it was brought out (though not always in the first paragraph) that the main protest was hundreds of times larger than the subsequent rioting, was peaceful, and that the two were nearly separate events.

In a sense, your posts are the equivalent of the subsequent riots.  A huge event occurred in Latvia.  Subsequent bad behavior should never eclipse that event.

Priecigu varda dienu, Robert.  Novelu Tev gudru padominu.

Roberts - 14 January 2009 05:42 PM

Incīt,

Assuming then that the crowd of demonstrators numbered 10,000, and ten percent of them (1000) were disgruntled policemen at the beck and call of protest co-organizer Agris Sūna.  If we are to believe that only a negligible amount of protesters, lets say 200 for the sake of argument, actually participated in the rioting, then they should have been outnumbered 5-1 by Sūna’s men.  Those must have been some extremely fierce urlas.  Not only can every single one of them evade and outwit five undercover cops, they still have the stamina and determination to take on hundreds more police and military men!

/R

Actually, the protesting police officers were not allowed to wear uniform to the tautas sapulce therefore they could not help.