For those who do not see the Israelis doing something wrong I give you another “gated community”

Source: Tēvija, October 24, 1941. Oriģinal in Latvian on page 2

Rīkojums par geto ierīkošanu Rīgā par attieksmēm ar žīdiem

1. Rīgā pastāv geto. To ierobežo Latgales, Vitebskas, Latgales, Žīdu, Lauvu, Lielā Kalna, Lazdonas, Katoļu, Jēkabpils un Lāčplēša ielas. Geto atdala ar stiepuļu žogu.
2. Nežīdiem uz visstingrāko aizliegts ieiet geto teritorijā. Apmeklēt geto atļauts tikai ar Rīgas pilsētas
apgabala komisāra atļauju.
3. Jebkura satiksme ar žīdiem aizliegta ārpus geto robežām. Tos, kas ar iepriekšēja nolūku vai aiz paviršības šī panta noteikumu neievēros, sodīs ar cietuma sodu un smagākos gadījumos ar pārmācības namu.
4. Uz katru mēģinājumu kaut kādai satiksmei, pāri vai caur geto žogu ar žīdiem, kārtības sargu posteņiem dota pavēle bez jebkāda iepriekšēja brīdinājuma šaut.
5. Pieprasījumi pēc žīdu darbaspēka iesniedzami darba pārvaldē, saskaņa ar tās izdotajiem rīkojumiem.
6. Katram, kas pie sevis nodarbina darba pārvaldes norīkotos žīdus, tie slēgtā kolonā jānogādā no geto darba vietā un tādā pašā veidā atkal atpakaļ.
7. Darba devējam jāuzmana, lai noteikumi par satiksmi ar Žīdiem tiktu ievēroti attiecībā uz viņa nodarbinātiem.
Šī rīkojuma neievērotājas sodīs ar naudas soda līdz RM, 1000, ja nav paredzēts smagāks sods.
Rīgā, 1941. g. 23. oktobrī.
Der Gebietskommissar
Rīgu-Stadt.
Rīkojums par žīdu pārvietošanos uz geto.
Visiem Rīgas pilsētas robežās dzīvojošiem žīdiem, kas vēl nav pārcēlušies uz geto, turp jāpārvietojas līdz 1941. gada 25. oktobrim pl. 18. Šī rīkojuma neievērotājus visstingrāki sodīs.
Rīgā, 1941. g, 23. oktobrī.
Der Gebietskommissar
Rīgu, Stadt.
For those not being able to read Latvian

Rīga, October 23 1941
1. There is a ghetto in Rīga. It is bordered by: Latgale, Vitebska Latgale, Žīda, Lauva, Lielā, Kalna Lazdona Katoļa, Jēkabpils, and Lāčplēsis Streets. The ghetto is cordoned off with barbed wire.
2. Non-Jews are strictly forbidden to enter the territory of the ghetto. Entry to the ghetto is allowed only with permission from the. Rīga municipal region Kommissar.
3. Any contact with Jews outside of the borders of the ghetto is forbidden. Those who with prior intent or due to carelessness do not observe this prohibition will be punished with a prison sentence and in the worst cases with a correctional house.
4. In the case of an attempt of some kind of contact with Jews over or through the barrier, the security guards are given the order to shoot without any prior warning.
5. Requests for Jewish labor are to be submitted to the Labor Board according to its published directions.
6. Each person who uses Jews assigned from the Labor Board must transport them from the ghetto in a closed convoy to their place of work and return them in the same way.
7.  The work providers must take care that the directives about contact with the Jews is also observed by their employees.
Those that do not follow this order will be fined to 1,000 Reichmarks if a more severe punishment not in order.

Der Gebieiskommissar Riga-Stadt

Hamas omitted its call for the destruction of Israel from its election manifesto, calling instead for “the establishment of an independent state whose capital is Jerusalem.”

What is interesting, is that the above was broadcast for the western media, with the same charter rhetoric of hate and propaganda urging Hamas to destroy “the infidel Jew and reclaim Palestine for Al Arabia” in Arabic over Arab media in several countries, including Gaza.  The old shell game…

Further, Oslo was sabotaged, as were numerous peace initiatives, with the same double talk and action.

Nothing has changed, except world-wide propaganda has slowly gained momentum until we are approaching an dual reality: countries where free speech, education and access to information is allowed, with a plurality approach re: religion, and theocratic regimes with apologist buddies masking antisemitism by renaming it antizionism.

Put Israel in a little thimble and surround it by a sea, and you will see why a wall was a hotly debated and reluctant choice.

Hmm…seems there might be a fire here, I’m off!

Latvians should sympathize with Israel.  Our nation also is in a little thimble by the sea, in the face of a Slavic onslaught!!!

Sorry. LOL’s token Israeli citizen was preoccupied with matters other. This thread is all over the place, so in no paricular order.

Israeli citizenship is easy to obtain if at least one of your grandparents is a Jew and you choose to become a citizen and reside in Israel. Once acquired its yours for life unless you choose to renounce it. Of course, this still doesn’t qualify you to be buried in a Jewish cemetary if you choose to end your life in Israel.

Phased liberation. Now there is an interesting term. If I understood Courlander correctly then Hamas is willing to take Jerusalem, Gaza and the West Bank as a phase of its liberation theology? One wonders why Israel just didn’t jump at this golden opportunity. As a student of military history I am sure it makes perfect sense for Courlander to give a sworn enemy something in return for the promise to continue fighting afterwards. Alas, I am not a student of military history. I never knew until I found out. And now I know.

Those who want to make the comparison between Palestine and Latvia might want to think about it a little bit more. I’ve heard plenty of comparisons made between Latvia and the situation in the Middle East, but usually the comparison is between Israel and Latvia. Seems quite a few people find both nation’s ethnocentric policies to have much in common. But of course its different when “we” do it. Pick your we and pro and cons. I am okay with either.

Much has been made of the Oslo Accords and who did what to whom and first and why and did they really mean it and what did they mean when they meant it and which phase is which and by the way which one is Pink. The truth is that as in most conflicts there is plenty of blame to go around. Pick a side and stick with it and you will more than likely have the truth on your side.  Ultimately it boils down to Israel’s right to exist versus Palestine’s. The only alternatives are either coexistance or the obliteration of one by the other. I believe in coexistence, but if anyone thinks that that’s what Hamas believes in then frankly they couldn’t find their, well, you know, from a hole in the ground. Now whether or not Hamas is right and Israel is wrong I’ll leave to others to debate. I have no problem with picking sides, but it seems a waste of time to go around in circles. You get dizzy and often fall flat on your, well, you know.

As to this latest round of hostilities. I wonder where all of those protestors were when Hamas was shooting rockets at civilian targets in Israel? Where was the outrage and the calls for a ceasefire? I am not defending Israel’s disproportionate reaction. Nor am I condemning the Hamas rocket attacks. I just want to see some intellectual consistency from the peacenik crowd. Again, I guess its different when “we” do it.

In practical terms, Hamas got what they wanted. They’ve been using the rocket attacks hoping to provoke Israel into a larger conflict. Their strategy is and has always been to have Israel do its dirty work for them. Hamas knows it can never win against Israel by conventional means. Their only hope is to provoke Israel into a disproportionate show of force, litter the streets of Gaza with corpses and rally the Arab street and play they symphaty card in the West.

Israel and Iran. Iran and Israel. If ever two countries needed each other more.
Iran needs Israel as the effigy with which they can stoke the fires. Iraq for obvious reasons is weak. Eqypt, for different reasons, is weak. Libya is all of a sudden a friend of the West. Syria has few friends. Jordan is too small and the Saudis even smaller. The various other nations are even smaller and hardly worth a mention. Iran wants to become the regional power, but it has one problem. Persians are not Arabs and Arabs are not Persians. The muslim card can only take one so far and Iran is Shia while the majority of the rest are Sunni. So Iran trots out Israel at every opportunity. I forgot who originally said it, and I am paraphrasing, but if Iran didn’t have Israel they would have to invent her.
Israel needs Iran to keep the U.S. engaged. The days of the neocons and carte blanche are over with and hopefully will never be seen again. Obama is far more likely to either push Israel for concensions or to threaten to withhold aid. As long as Iran has designs on becoming a big player Israel thinks that it can still get what it wants out of the US.

Don’t remember who mentioned the possibility of nuclear confrontation between Israel and Iran, but that’s pure drivel. Neither is stupid enough to go that route. That’s a doomsday scenario for either nation and neither is insane enough for pyrrhic victories.

Andrejs

Thanks, Andrejs. 

It’s funny, as I was writing the last post, the fire alarm went off in my building.  There is a homeless fellow who sometimes camps inside our open outside door.  Apparently, he must have set a little fire, probably falling asleep with a cigarette.  Often we leave him some food, coffee, etc, and he is on his way in 2-3 days.  As I am fairly close to the door, one of the people who attended, (police), asked me if I witnessed the event, and I told him he camps here every year, but this is the first fire.

The cops don’t like my dog near them, so I went to put him in my apt. and overheard one of them noticing the mezzuzah at my door and said, “Oh, Mrs. Gold berg goes to hide her dog and her gold!”  in French, not realizing I heard and understood.  It’s not directly related to this post, but tangentially, and reminds me of the Muslim cable guy who wanted to engage me in debate when he saw the mezzuzah, as welk, last week. .He was “educated” here, but indoctrinated to believe I sit on a mountain of gold.  It’s a constant undercurrent, only mildly annoying from time to time, but intensifies during these sorts of conflicts.

Let’s see: 430 Palestinians dead. 4 Israelis. An eye for an eye. The ratio stands for the last 41 years.  Europe seems to have a lot more realistic assesment of Israel, at least I felt it in Latvia. The age of Leon Uris’ “Exodus’ ended in 1967.

Ah, yes. The mathematics of suffering. Would it change anything if it was 430 against 430? 278 v. 153? 947 versus 2? Disproportionate numbers don’t prove much except that one side is better at killing than the other. Does this mean that if that ratio were to be reversed so will your argument? What’s an acceptable number, Kas? The numbers are certainly disproportionate, but its certainly not for a lack of trying.

Andrejs

Let me understand the scenario. 1.5 million people are cut off from the world by land and sea blockades and their response is not to merely lie down and die but to send some rockets to show their displeasure.This provides the armed forces of Israel an opportunityto salvage their pride for the whuppin they received in Lebanon . Now the US will be required to forgive another 4 billion in military aid loans to obtain “peace”. At least until Israel needs some more economic “stimulation ” from the US taxpayer.Yes , the price of economic stability is merely the lives of several hundred children, the adults don’t count because they are only Palestinians.

Andrejs
I suggest you read slower. Hamas said East Jerusalem and Israel have west Jerusalem but Israel wants it all.
As I read and hear, there will be more Palestinians in Israel in the next century due to birth records so Israel is countering by inviting more Jewish immigration to offset this but with land being scarce they are keeping their “settlements” outside Israeli borders.
In the western world the news is tainted in favor of Israel and the failure of the Oslo Accord is blamed on the Palestinians but in the Eastern world it is a Zionist attempt to take Palestinian land so one must read and decide.
For those who complain about Hamas firing rockets into Israel should first remember that there was a truce in hope of an accord, but Israel chose not negotiate in faith and the truce ran out and open warfare continues. Truce to Israel seams to means keep on doing as before. An extension of the truce would only bring more settlements and more walls built on Palestinian lands and that is not negotiations of trust.
One must also remember that when Israel closed down some of its settlements, it was a clash between Israelis that believed that all that land belonged to the Jews and the government. Politics is just as important in Israel as in Palestine areas and politicians want to be reelected.

Alana, we already have Hauptman Kurlander as a member of LOL’s distinct band of resident crazies. This post of yours isnt doing you alot of favors.

Pre-’67, Jordon destroyed synagogues and churches and I don’t see Hamas interested in ANYTHING but raising the “banner of Allah” everywhere.

Banner of Allah ? Is that unique to Hamas ? Is it their banner ?

Islam is, in fact, the worlds most common religion.

Hamas just gained legitimate political status bullying, buying and spreading hate propaganda.  If anything, I am not painting Islamofascim with a black crayon quite black enough.

Well, I wouldnt imagine ever granting Hamas “legitimate political status” under reasonable circumstances - but since you have, well then there it is.

There’s a legal aspect to legitimacy. It implies at least some sense of political acceptance. Interesting. You give Hamas more credit than I ever would.

As for the black crayon - yes, you may not feel that you’ve blackened Islam enough. My point was that you only know one color.

—snipped—

Sharia law world-wide?  Oh yeah, it’s almost here.

Oh yeah..Absolutely..In Canada clearly.. I cant walk through Old Montreal looking for a restaurant that serves a decent piece of pork belly without being mobbed and stoned by the religious police.

Vidas

Wahabist, (vidas)

You are so right:  I did not write and think terribly clearly nor discriminately.  I suppose the recent little fire, and annoying but definitely not health-destroying antisemitic comments by cops supposedly trained “to serve and protect” added to the recent cable guy’s visit of vitriol hadn’t been shrugged off.

But wait; aren’t we forgetting something else?  Conceivably Egypt could have kept it’s borders open to Gaza, sending in a steady stream of supplies of whatever, (not forgetting Israel still sent in 39 supply trucks under fire the day of their response).  Who is condemning Egypt world-wide?  No one that I see.  There need not be any privation of supplies should Egypt open the Rafah border.  But that would be the same Egypt chasing off Palestinian refugees from entering their country through the hole they created in their fence….

And again, I say, if humanitarianism is what is needed, why does the Islamist world put pressure on it’s people to wage peace, not war????? 

re: crayons;  I’ve actually done a 6 week tv series on comparative religions post 911, invited Muslim mullahs and community leaders to speak and sat at round tables in the community, to further better understanding and community relations.  Bahai, Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, (Presbyterian and United), Buddhist, Christian Science leaders responded and took part.  The particular Mullah who spoke with me refused, after cross-questioned me severely,demanding to speak to the station’s show producer and made many demands, (beverages in paper cups, no other religious symbols aired or at studio premises day of taping, etc).  Lots of trouble, so segment was cancelled.

Yes, I have moderate Muslim confreres and co-workers and have lots of “light” interaction, but we don’t discuss Palestine/Israel as we respect our working friendship and will not get embroiled in complex political imbroglios.

I am in contact with Syed Soharwardy, the fellow who sued a Canadian magazine writer for his supposedly anti Islam article.  The writer was taken before the Canadian Human Rights tribunal and subjected to a farcical hearing. 
In conclusion, Soharwardy has now launched a Freedom of Speech centre in Calgary, as he realized recent immigrants have little understanding of Canadian mores, rights and freedoms of expression, and is working, admirably, in my estimation, to create peace and understanding.  I salute him. 

I work with many colours, you see, many I do not share here.

I bid you all adieu for a while, as the New Year means work again and I must earn my bread.

It’s been stimulating and I thank you all for the opportunity to air my views, vent, etc, and read some astonishing and edifying posts.  All the best, folks….

We see now evolution in action:  the contest for the survival of the fittest!

As long as poverty exists next door to plenty, the conflict will continue. Two alternatives come to my mind.  One is to exterminate tha Gazans, the other is to provide them with the means to live a decent life.

Who will provide?  Hamas?  Egypt?  The UN?  Dubai? All the $ going into weaponry turned into aid, infrastructure, etc,
“beating swords into plowshares”....imagine..

Alana - 08 January 2009 07:04 PM

Who will provide?  Hamas?  Egypt?  The UN?  Dubai? All the $ going into weaponry turned into aid, infrastructure, etc,
“beating swords into plowshares”....imagine..

That argument could easily go both ways - couldnt it ? Who provides - or my favorite Lithuanian political term “kas tave valdo” meaning who rules/owns you.

Modern Israel was “provided” after WW2. Israel receives massive foreign aid to keep its limited economy alive. Does some of that aid take the form of military arms ? Absolutely.

I agree with Seskis that the bottom line will be a question of life or death for the Palestinians. Granted, the radical segment of the Palestinian cause seems to have grown a massive chip on its shoulder (very arab like although describing this conflict as an Islamist event is truly naive) and continues to champion the destruction of Israel - even though that is impossible at this point. On the other hand, the radical segment of Israel equates peace with a regrettable period of calm that simply provides an opportunity for the Palestinians to rearm.

Coming back to the issue of who will provide - I guess we all will. Unless, Alana, you’re against providing Palestinians with the means to live a decent life.

Vidas